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 Post subject: ***SPOILERS!!!**DON'T READ IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN THE LAST JEDI
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:41 pm 
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What did people think of it?

I do need a second viewing, but I thought it was very good. I wasn't aware of a backlash until this morning when I saw a petition and some angry Tweets.

To those upset - you haven't got a clue about good storytelling. You need to rip up the past and destroy legends for a story to progress, they certainly done that.


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 Post subject: Re: ***SPOILERS!!!**DON'T READ IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN THE LAST JEDI
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:20 pm 

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It was too long.

Spoiler:
Pretty big Sci Fi fan myself, and am completely on-board with the originally trilogy.
The prequel films I’ve pretty much ignored, watched maybe once or twice in total and these have been forgotten from memory.

I liked the Force Awakens and appreciated the new characters they brought in, Kylo Ren was a bit whiney, and a stroppy teenager, but Finn & Rey gave a good account and set up the series nicely, knocking off Hans in that way was a bit gutting and in hindsight it looks like the writers killed off the wrong characters!

Rogue One didn’t really grab me or make me care, a good action story line but I couldn’t name you any of the real characters and only the Robot with his comedy kept me entertained.


Sooooo.. the last Jedi, starting with my opening gambit, the facts will probably tell you it’s the longest film yet, and it might have been to do with me having a long day and catching the 8pm showing, but it definitely felt too long, 17 odd minutes longer than the almost standard 2 hours 16, and I think there was some cutting that could have been done.
The sound always is and always has been amazing, even in my lo tech local cinema Star Wars always excels on the sounds and the music, space ships, lasers, light sabers and score, and this doesn’t disappoint.

Leia – they’ve written themselves into a situation now which through no fault of their own they are going to have to tastefully conclude, why Kylo/Ben was reluctant to push the button, when he was quite happy to slice and dice Hans didn’t really come through, having seconds thoughts about what side you’re on?, didn’t quite come through. Leia who hadn’t dabbled in the force returned back to the ship, in what would have been the perfect point to put a tick in the box for that characters story arc, knowing what we know off screen, I feel that would have had far more impact, in the realisation this is the last you were seeing on her onscreen, it would have grabbed the emotional strings, it may have not been the death she deserved, but any less than Hans?

Kylo – taking off the mask worked for Kylo, Snoke knows his stuff, he didn’t seem to much of the crying child, and was focused, and channelled than the first film, he still didn’t really feel like the big bad guy, but I hope that sets him up nicely for the third film, and he becomes real ruthless.

Rey – picking up the young Luke mantel and copying some of his actions, attempting to turn Kylo for reasons I’m not clear on, this was another good outing for her, the fight scene in Snoke’s boardroom was fantastic and her resolve and stubbornness in sticking with Luke when he refused to help was shone though. Looking forward to where episode 9 takes her story.

Luke – I was concerned at the start where I thought he make not have said very much, but luckily that changed and eventually he partook in a bit of acting. I thought he was very good, it’s clear the Jedi training programme has some holes in the process and requires an immediate risk assessment, to lose Anakin which had such an impact without a revision to the Jedi manuals to then allow Ben (or Luke’s fear) to follow the same path. His fight with Kylo and how it ended was very clever and totally took me by surprise, but also masked Luke’s lack of real movement within the fight, he wasn’t very mobile, and a young Kylo would have had no problems dispatching him. His final ending was just, and I wasn’t disappointed or felt let down in how he came to his demise.

The Vice Admirial Holdo, think deserves a mention as she felt out of place, after taking over from Leia she gave off a lax peace loving hippy vibe, was happy just to carry on the low pace chase until their inevitable death, and they did drag out that chase far too long, although she had no reason to tell Poe or anyone it appears of her ultimate plan to reach the planets defence, if she would have confided in him we could have saved the 20 minutes trip to the Las Vegas trip, and the film would have timed at the Bwortang’s sweet spot.

Benicio del Toro was excellent I thought as the codebreaker, and the film would have lost element, and also it tied in with him releasing information on the cloaked ships plans, but why did he give him that much info?, was the payoff that much?

I’ll probably add more as I think of it, or take out who knows, overall I enjoyed it greatly, and the only reason there’s a few minor concerns or comments is that it has got my attention and made me care in a way Rogue One left me unfussed and a half assed Meh.

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 Post subject: Re: ***SPOILERS!!!**DON'T READ IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN THE LAST JEDI
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 5:33 pm 
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I'm not going to stick mine behind spoiler tags, the thread title should be enough.

So. I do need and want to see it again. Long films aren't a problem for me, but this did sag in the middle and the whole casino thing did that. In its defence, they had to find a way to shoehorn the Benicio Del Toro character in. It was also gloriously beautiful. A flipside and mirroring the bar scene from The Empire Strikes Back. It could have done with some editing here.

That's my only criticism (apart from a niggle from one performance, I will mention that in a bit)

I didn't realise there was a backlash, even a petition to have this episode struck off as SW canon. People are absolutely clueless.

My take has always been that Luke never finished his training and disaster always loomed. That's just my take but it holds water.

Good storytelling needs to rip shit up, stories have done so since the beginning of time, Greek Mythology has kind of weathered that quite well.
My favourite books are the Dune books (You will have heard me prattle on about them from time to time). You may have seen the film. Paul Atreides is the chosen one, the Messiah. In further books though, his being and legacy is a fucking mess. His story was merely a catalyst for thousands upon thousands of years of stories for the future.

SWTLJ has taken that risk and hats off to them. It actually felt like this was the start of a bigger story and why not.

Like Benjo mentioned in another thread, it does worry me that the movies might not be in such solid hands in the future (This guy is doing the next trilogy?)

I will stop for now as this is long enough, I do have more to say though :oops:


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 Post subject: Re: ***SPOILERS!!!**DON'T READ IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN THE LAST JEDI
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 6:43 pm 
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I feel the film could have gone further and quite honestly fuck all the haters...

*SPOILERS*

Spoiler:
The bit about burning everything to the ground gave me goosebumps, and something I'm totally on board with. I do feel they kinda chickened out of that one by thrusting Rey back with the good guys and Emo lad doing his own thing. The thing that rings true is this constant struggle for power and dominance between the good and dark side of the force and what good it's done so far. Lots of little nuggets about the futility of war, and especially when someone like Rose talks about saving the things you love rather than destroying things you hate. It's a much more hopeful outlook for the future.

The Leia thing is a tricky one. As soon as the bridge attack happened, you immediately think that's it, but Rian Johnson had his story and stuck to it. I think I heard him in an interview saying he'd rather honour Carrie Fisher by showing her last screen moments acting than just taking the easy way out. It does leave a big problem for JJ in the next one (and also kinda stunned that there was no grand plan for a trilogy ark at all!).

I thought Luke (and Hamill) were fantastic. Full of conflict and totally broken by his own inability to make things any better. The scenes with Yoda, R2 and Leia were great. So much nostalgia and R2's trick with the holo-message just got me in the feels. A cheep trick indeed, but totally effective.

It's been said a few times but the casino section feels baggy and a bit out of place. I don't think it's a bad idea in principle but could have done with some trimming and a bit of a rework.
Not sure what I thought about Snoke, he felt like a real threat but it seemed a little weak that he was cut down with such ease, given the powers he seemed to posess.

Cinematically the whole look of the salty red planet was gorgeous, very much like Hoth but everything they're doing there is carving big blood red holes in it. Facing off Luke and Kylo Ben in a dramatic wide shot - spiffing.

Some very telling cues from more interesting influences, like the misdirection of the Luke / Ben confrontation very remeniscent of things like Rashomon.

Again, I really need another watch or two but just a few of my thoughts. Probably said it in the other thread but it didn't feel long to me, the snappy shifts in location and tonal changes kept things zipping along.

Big takeaway is about how these fabled Jedi Masters have all failed. Finn is already being looked up to as a hero by taking a stand against the First Order. Paige, the girl in the bomber who sacrifices herself in the opening sequence is as hero. The message is strong for me that everyone has the potential to be a hero, no matter what their lineage.

A New Hope.

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 Post subject: Re: ***SPOILERS!!!**DON'T READ IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN THE LAST JEDI
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:31 pm 

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I didn't think of it that way Lee, but that does make sense that with Luke winging the JEDI training the chances of him fucking it up was quite high.

I agree about Snoke too Benjo, because of his giant like holo in the first film his true to life form appeared week, but they he did throw Rey around like a marionette. But then didn't notice his lightsaber change angle, but maybe as his concentration was on manipulating Rey his focus was off.


Going back to the casino side mission, I think it has more do to with those child horse jockeys than bringing Beni in, with the final scenes showing the boy grabbing the broom using the force, hinting at the next gen 4k force users.

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 Post subject: Re: ***SPOILERS!!!**DON'T READ IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN THE LAST JEDI
PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:17 pm 
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And on....


Yes. I was very surprised that they didn't kill Leia off on-screen. A lot of the film seemed to be a very well thought out goodbye to her as well, fuck knows how they can deal with that well.

I liked the Laura Dern character (Vice Admiral Holdo), but I have a soft spot for Laura Dern from her David Lycnch films.

The performance I was going to gripe about was Daisy Ridley's. I am a bit of an acting geek, any breathing or words out of place and I'm (annoyingly) a harsh critic. There were some early scenes of hers where I could almost hear her reading the lines and reciting them verbatim. She did pull it back.

Hamill was great, Carrie Fischer was the best she's ever been. It's a shame Hamill is bitching, but I'm not sure of the overall context as I've only read the headlines.

The Snoke death was odd, but I can live with it (The Snoke throne-room scenes were stunning and a real nod to Roger Corman's Edgar Allen Poe films).

I hope Disney doesn't buckle and leaves this guy in charge, I really strongly hope that.


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